TripleTaurus
Junior Member
 Offline
Posts: 53
|
 |
« on: Feb 26, 2010, 08:59 PM » |
|
Starcana invited me here, after I posted some comments on today's tarot affirmation on the Five of Cups. http://astrologycreepsandtarotfreaks.blogspot.com/2010/02/tarot-affirmations-five-of-cups.htmlI said I was creeped out by the two cups that look like they are spilling blood. I think that's a rather harsh way to depict this card, and I noted that the Rider-Waite-Smith deck has a bluish spilled fluid, keeping the theme of cups-water-love. The red blood seems like the person is lamenting the loss of life, rather than the loss of love. I would hesitate to use this deck and offer my standard interpretation, which usually starts with "no sense crying over spilled milk," it would be hard to offer this meaning with such a strong image. Fives are usually a sign of difficulties, being an odd number. The Metasymbology method describes the 5 playing card image, of an X shaped layout of pips, I call it "turbulent crossing energy streams" or "at the crossroads." The Thoth deck uses a variation of the typical Golden Dawn layout, showing the 5 cups in a pentagram, the lower three are tipped and we can see they are empty, but the upper two cups can't be seen. However, there is no water pouring into them, as in typical G.-.D.-. cups imagery. I generally interpret the 5C as a symbol of loss of what might have been. I interpret the reversal as focusing on what remains, rather than the upright focus on what was lost, so the 5 becomes a more positive card when reversed. So, I remarked to Starcana that this is why we have different decks, we can pick the art that speaks to us. The bloody spilled cups speaks too loudly, in my opinion. What do you think? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Starcana
Queen of Fire
Mod Squad
Senior Member
Offline
Gender: 
Posts: 300
Suzi Dronzek Spiritual Intuitive Tarot Astrologer
|
|
« Reply #1 on: Feb 27, 2010, 12:00 AM » |
|
Hi TripleTaurus. I'm glad that you decided to join us, and hope that you enjoy your stay. I always like to let everyone know that we have a nice friendly place to mingle with other readers. I haven't worked with the Rider-Waite-Smith, for many, many moons, but I agree about working with different decks. I personally enjoy this deck because it does speak loudly to me. But rather than discussing it on the blog, I thought that it would be fun and more appropriate here on the forum.
In my own interpretation, the blood spilling from the cup, does suggest a loss of a love. Red is the color of love, blood, loyalty, life, passion... and this particular loss runs deep. 5's create intensity, and like an old Brian Adam's song 'Cut's Like a Knife', this one really hurts. So depending on their 'love'.. whether a relationship, a home, a business, etc.... they have invested real 'blood' into it, and now something is lost. But other decks will have images that speak a whole different interpretation. I just didn't want you to be 'freaked out' by the art.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Feb 27, 2010, 12:05 AM by Starcana »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TripleTaurus
Junior Member
Offline
Posts: 53
|
|
« Reply #2 on: Feb 27, 2010, 01:07 AM » |
|
Ah, it seems I have made an error. I was doing a reading tonight, and the Five of Cups came up. I was using the Rider-Waite-Smith deck, and much to my surprise, there was red spilled out of the cups. Not a lot, so perhaps I never noticed it. Before I posted about this, I did check on the internet and looked at some 5C images, and there is a distinct greenish puddle in the foreground. But I overlooked some small red puddles in the background behind the 3 spilled cups. So this is sort of a mixed imagery, spilling both water and red blood. Or perhaps it is red wine. I prefer to think of it as wine.
I must investigate further. There are several different editions of the Rider Waite Smith deck, it was originally drawn in black outlines only, the added colors have varied slightly over the years and over different editions, and there were detailed coloring instructions written by Waite. Perhaps there is more to this story. But clearly, the 5C published in today's affirmation is emphasizing the red blood/wine spill, it couldn't be overlooked (as I apparently did with the RWS deck, oops).
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
ThelemicWaves
Regular
Offline
Posts: 127
|
|
« Reply #3 on: Feb 27, 2010, 07:54 AM » |
|
Try to remember that in what you call "metasymbology" (may I have a glass of milk to wash that down?), the number five is linked to the color red. In the G.'.D.'. and Thoth decks, you will see this made apparent to some degree (cups being the least friendly to the sphere of Geburah, this is less prominent here). And it the Waite designs, you do see some effort to stick with the Qabalistic tradition.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TripleTaurus
Junior Member
Offline
Posts: 53
|
|
« Reply #4 on: Feb 27, 2010, 04:21 PM » |
|
Ah, well, the old Order of the Magi (a/k/a Metasymbology) system doesn't deal with colors other than black and red, the colors of the playing card suits. I suppose this is also partly due to the OOM leader being a national grandmaster at Checkers.. ha.
Checking the always-cryptic Liber 777, it declares the Fives are symbolized by orange on the King Scale of Color, this can be seen clearly in the orange background of the Thoth 5C. Another (unattributed) source assigns 5C to scarlet red on the Queen Scale of color. Zalewski's G.-.D.-. design assigns the color red to the cups themselves, and "translucent vivid red" to clouds in the background. So it appears that, by various qabalistic criterion, the red would be emphasized in the 5C card design, and perhaps it was understated in the RWS deck. Very interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
ThelemicWaves
Regular
Offline
Posts: 127
|
|
« Reply #5 on: Feb 28, 2010, 06:34 AM » |
|
Yes. I agree. There are a lot of things that Waite/Coleman-Smith did or may have done that is interesting (maybe).
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Bulal
|
|
« Reply #6 on: Mar 01, 2010, 01:52 PM » |
|
"turbulent crossing energy streams" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_dualityI'm impressed! This aspect of Tarot seems to be widely overlooked in the community. In fact, understanding the physics of the process Tarot illustrates is integral to the evolution of our craft. Overall, a five represents instability created by interference. The affirmation that Starcana proposed here... ( http://astrologycreepsandtarotfreaks.blogspot.com/2010/02/tarot-affirmations-five-of-cups.html...is a beautiful representation of a disambiguation principle that largely resolves most issues inherent in such a manifestation. The deck she chose to demonstrate this method is secondary to the principle. Really, the artwork only slightly impresses it's creator's experience on the essence of energies the deck is meant to reflect. Even then, these impressions tend to confuse only readers who believe that the cards are either the source of the energy, or lose significance if misrepresented. This is not the case. The patterns are still present, but those less cognizant remain unaware. This is not to say they are uninformed. It's just that information doesn't alway's ensure understanding. Even experience must often be repeated if awareness is to be obtained. Truly, a firm understanding of the energy's nature lends relevance to the affirmation, but the affirmation is not dependant on the artists interpretation. If anything, should the reader be open to the information provided, the context of the affirmation clears up any initial confusion. To debate the artwork and ignore the affirmation demonstrates a desire to be argumentative at the cost of reason. I don't think she once mentions going to the sink and drinking a goblet of blood or anything. So, I'm curious. What do you think the source of these energies are? What does blood represent to you? Do you think Starcana's Five of Cups affirmation is relevant? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
TripleTaurus
Junior Member
Offline
Posts: 53
|
|
« Reply #7 on: Mar 02, 2010, 08:59 PM » |
|
Ah, well I'm all about the physics, now we're talking my language. The very first mystical experience came when I was studying quantum physics, as I examined Bell's Inequality. I suddenly had a flash of the quantum intertangledness of every particle of my body interacting with every particle in the universe. I suppose some would call that Satori.
I hadn't considered it, but I suppose the 5 pips in an X formation could be a symbolic representation of the crests and troughs of two waveforms crossing at an angle. And now that we're on the physics wavelength, the concept of Redshift seems appropriate to past events becoming more distant. Of course that concept was unknown at the time the RWS deck imagery was created.
I'll agree that the affirmation is not dependent on the imagery of that particular deck's card, and I didn't mean to minimize the importance of the affirmation itself. It's just that this particular card image caught me by surprise, I made a quick comment on the card iconography and Starcana asked me to elaborate on it. I think the discussion and research she prompted was interesting and worth pursuing.
I like the affirmation, right up to the point of "yesterday doesn't exist anymore." That is kind of contrary to my personal cosmology. I believe in the "eternal now," every moment exists eternally, yesterday is just as close as "now," but due to the illusion of time, we can no longer access it directly. But here I am quibbling over extremely subtle cosmological and spiritual principles that baffle most people. I would never assert that the affirmation is "wrong" merely because it doesn't suit my eccentric cosmological viewpoint. It seems to properly serve the purpose of not holding those particular "past" energies in the current moment.
Anyway, the best I can illustrate my "eternal now" principle is through a story in Kurt Vonnegut's book Slaughterhouse Five. The alien Trafalmadorians are explaining they are pan-dimensional beings and can see all of time, past and future, as if it was now. So the guy asks how the universe ends. They tell him one of their test pilots is flying a new experimental spaceship and he flips the wrong switch and the universe winks out of existence. He protests, if the Trafalmadorians know he's going to flip the wrong switch, and the pilot even knows he's going to flip the wrong switch, why doesn't he just decide to not flip the wrong switch? And the Trafalmadorians try to explain, despite their protests about the inadequacy of past, future, and present tenses in our limited language, "He will always flip the switch, he has always flipped the switch, he will always have flipped the switch, he has always will flip the switch..." Ha.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Mar 02, 2010, 09:01 PM by TripleTaurus »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Bulal
|
|
« Reply #8 on: Mar 03, 2010, 12:47 AM » |
|
Very interesting! I am going to have to read Slaughterhouse Five.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
